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    salary cap penalities

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    Blake Bombers

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    salary cap penalities

    Post by Blake Bombers on Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:19 pm

    Putting up for debate the thought of increasing cap penalities for cutting a player. I feel the 20% is too low and it is too easy to get out of bad contracts. I thinkt the penalty should be 50% to really penalize a team for handing out a bad contract. Your thoughts?
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    Raining Bullets
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    Re: salary cap penalities

    Post by Raining Bullets on Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:08 am

    This is a good topic brought up by Blake. I can see his point although personally I think 50% is quite a bit. Keeping it reasonably priced allows the cuts so that we will see turnover during free agency auction. I had the most penalties this offseason...it cost me $24K which totally sucked because having those extra funds would have been nice.

    However, 20% might be a little too cheap. I would not be opposed to a tiered based system...where once you reach a certain level of penalties, everything after that point gets penalized at say 35% and then maybe even a 3rd layer at 50%...sort of like the luxury tax in the mlb.

    Thats my 2 cents
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    Raining Bullets
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    Re: salary cap penalities

    Post by Raining Bullets on Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:54 pm

    This one was brought up by a bunch of people and probably deserves the most analysis. I have heard that the original Cap Hits of 20% are not tough enough. I have also heard that there should be a stiffer penalty for anyone deciding to cut a back-loaded player. Personally, I feel the 20% hit is a fair cap hit. Perhaps it could be raised to 25%. But I am not in favor of making it so bad on an owner that they do not want to come back. The key to this league is continuity and going through 5 new owners over the off-season is a lot of work and is not ideal. So for this I do not want to make it an absurd figure like 50%.
    With respect to the stiffer penalties for cutting a backloaded player, the argument is that players can load up and cut once the price gets too high and the resulting penalty is not enough. To make sense of this I need real life examples in order to compare apples to apples.

    Ex: I sign a player to a 3 year $50K straight forward contract. Say I cut the player in year 3 I will be assessed a $10K cap hit and in essence I would have paid $110K for 2 years of service.
    Taking that same Salary and making it a back loaded deal would make it ($23K, $53K & $74K). If I cut the player in year 3 that will come with a $14.8K penalty. This would mean that you would have paid $90.8K for the 2 years of service. So therefore, the reality is you pay less for a player if you give a back loaded contract and then cut opposed to a straight forward deal. Does this make sense?
    So what should the penalties be? Well for it to be equal the penalty would need to be a $34K penalty to make the salaries both equal $110 for 2 years of service. This does make some sense. It is a fucking heft penalty for sure.

    My only issue with something like this is that it needs to work both ways. For example if you sign a guy to a $50K 3 year front loaded deal, his contract would be ($75K, $51K & $24K). If the player is kept for the 1st 2 years of service he would have been paid $126K over 2 years. This is $16K more than the $110K. Therefore, should that owner then be given a $16K allowance should he feel the desire to cut him in year 3? In other words instead of a $300K Cap Limit he is given $316K??? I don’t like that but it should work both ways should it not?

    This issue like I said received the most feedback during the season and I do not want to treat this issue lightly. Please provide alternative suggestions and/or feedback on this issue. This is certainly a tricky situation for sure. Maybe the suggestion is as simple as closing variance within the front/load vs. backload deals to make the salary changes less volatile. Again I am all ears on this one.
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    C-Town Chivalry

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    Re: salary cap penalities

    Post by C-Town Chivalry on Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:17 pm

    50% def absurd. I like the 20% number, but wouldn't be against 25% if people are clamoring for it.

    For back loaded and front loaded contract:

    If you cut backloaded, you should have to pay what it would have cost for 2 years standard, so take a penalty of whatever the difference is (what standard pay would have been MINUS what your contract paid) PLUS 20% of what the 3rd year would have been with a standard contract. Only way I can see being fair.

    so in your analogy, standard 3 yr @50k each means you basically pay 100+10 for 2 years plus the penalty.
    If that's a backloaded deal, you would have paid 23+53=76 PLUS 24 (penalty) PLUS 10 more. I know this is exactly what you figured.


    And if you drop on a front loaded deal, I would say you do the opposite, as you allude to. Get a BONUS of (what you paid MINUS what the standard contract would have paid) over the time you roster a player, but you still pay 20% penalty on what would have remained had it been a standard contract.

    So you pay 75+51= 126K ..You want to drop this player, you pay 10K, but would get credited 26K, so you get 16K BONUS.


    Again totally what you were saying, and I agree. Just had to put the numbers out there so I could see them in action.

    I'm smellin what you're cooking...Only other thing would be to just not have front and backloaded deals if they cause too many headahces.




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    Raining Bullets
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    Re: salary cap penalities

    Post by Raining Bullets on Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:34 am

    So to summarize proposal here is we keep 20% cap hit. But for those Front and Back Loaded deals the cap hit is related to the what the cost would have been if it was a regular contract.

    Example

    Sign a guy for 2 yrs @ $50K= $100K

    If you cut after yr 1 your cap hit is $10K and essentially you paid $60 for 1 yr of service.

    If it was a 2 Yr back load ($35/$65) and you cut before year 2 the cap hit will be $25K so that way you paid $60 for the 1 year of service.

    This works both ways. If you gave a front-load and you cut after year 2. You would have paid $65 for just 1 yr, so in this case you would receive a $5K credit.

    So basically cap hits relate to a standard contract. It is pretty easy to follow looking at it this way.
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    Raining Bullets
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    Loophole on Front/Backloads

    Post by Raining Bullets on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:55 am

    The recent loophole that was fixed in regards to backloaded contracts should be applied to players who are granted immunity for retirement/jail bird.

    I was thinking about this when Tony G was nominated, I was going to give him a 3 yr backloaded deal, knowing full well he will retire at the end of the year. So while, you are granted immunity for the cap hit for retirement, I feel like the Loophole that applies to cap hits needs to be applied to these contracts as well. While you won't get a cap hit for the cut, you should still be responsible for the remainder of that player's 1st year salary.

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    Raining Bullets
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    Re: salary cap penalities

    Post by Raining Bullets on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:58 am

    So lets say he finishes at $25K avg and you give a 3 yr back load.  that 1st year salary will end up being $11K.  If/When he retires, the owner will be hit with a $14K cap hit in order to pay off his 1st yr salary.  He is not however assessed the 20% on top of this.  

    Otherwise you can totally circumvent the system here when we all know Tony G should retire at end of year.
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    Wetter than Dutch Dikes
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    Re: salary cap penalities

    Post by Wetter than Dutch Dikes on Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:19 pm

    should retire? Show the man some freakin respect.
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    Raining Bullets
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    Re: salary cap penalities

    Post by Raining Bullets on Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:51 pm

    that was a poor choice of words. I should have said he most likely will retire. However, I did show him respect with actually bidding him up to a respectable price level, the rest of you fools were going to let him walk for an atrocious $19,000
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    Blake Bombers

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    Re: salary cap penalities

    Post by Blake Bombers on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:18 am

    Agreed that needs to be fixed for this exact situation where Gonzalez is a free agent and likley retiring after this year. Need to avoid being able to save at least $10k on cap by signing to the backloaded deal.
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    Raining Bullets
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    Re: salary cap penalities

    Post by Raining Bullets on Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:16 am

    This rule was passed so that the loophole w. front/backloads were closed

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